Bob Glenister

The names of the judges, were Gavin Turner CEO of Avery Africa, Dyelan Copeland CEO of Sign Africa. Bob Glenister CEO of Roland Africa. Gerald Yapp was the independent Art Critic and the person who designed the creative briefs. Withholding the judges names is standard practice until after the competition closing as their should be no undue influence placed on these individuals before the last entry is in.

I hope this clarifies the issue.

Bob

Rohan

Hi

Regarding this whole debate issue; I obviously think this lucien guy is out of line although I also hate the fact that a deadline was moved (I do understand the whole Sunday thing - so ja). But just out of interest I would like to know who the independent art critic was and what he has done. I think not releasing the names of the judges takes away credibility.

So that's that. I'm not a finalist. This is just my opinion. next year I hope I have a chance of such a competition again.

Rohan

Bob Glenister

Hi Everyone,
I have reviewed most of the posts on the Blog and overall I think, although some of the discussions have been uncomfortable for all of us some good hopefully will come out of this experience.

I have picked up on some of the issues raised, hopefully I can help to clear these up for you.

1. Winners profiled: No profiling is done, we in actual fact have tried this year to broaden the base of entrants and we have been pleasantly surprised by the diversity of the people that have entered with even some Junior Schools entering. This will hopefully expand and we will need to expand the prizes for next year to include a Junior element. I stress the judges had no idea of the entrants names or identities when viewing the entries. (Lesson1: next year we will video the judging process so that you all can understand the difficulty the judges have at making their choices.)

2. Finalists who were finalists in previous years, this is a lesson for all of you, we as judges were surprised to be advised, that finalists from previous years were once again in the finalists mix once we handed them to the administration staff. These individuals and companies have honed their skills from year to year and should be applauded, that given the quality standard increase that they have not remained in one spot but bettered their skills. Everyone should learn from exposure to better and better competition as this improves the overall impression of the graphics industry from outsiders and makes us all walk a little prouder. as graphics designers.

3. Eliminating Roland customers, this would not be fair at all. The judges are chosen, so their is no bias. Avery and Sign Africa service the complete industry which includes our competitors they cannot be seen to be biased to Roland as the other suppliers in the industry would not support them and they would go out business in an instant.. Plus if you asked Roland to exclude their customers you would have to ask Avery and Sign Africa to do the same. We would be left with less than 30 entries. and the objective of the competition to improve the quality of all your work would fall flat as you would exclude some of South Africa's best designers. The independent Art critic has no interest in printing machines or vinyl. We were very careful in loading the judging in this way so that we could never be accused of bias.

4. Closing date, this was necessary due to an overload on our server which is located in Germany and unfortunately it fell on a Sunday and we could not get hold of our service provider as the closing date was a Sunday. (Lesson 2. Don't choose a closing date on a Sunday.)

5.Voting at the competition and being allowed to promote your own work. This is a market reality and remember this is a Commercial Art competition not a Fine Arts competition. The market rules and kicks butt. Promotion is part of the game you as artists need to learn if you are to survive in this dog eat dog world.

I think I have answered most of the concerns raised if not, please feel free to send me a mail or post a question.

Have a wonderful weekend and most of all have fun and think how you can make this competition more fun.

We are investing 2 Million in you guys, you have a choice use this to create positive energy in the industry or use it negatively. If you insist on using it negatively, I think you all realise that I will be gone.

Bozo the clown.

Bob Glenister

This Blog has been created in the interest of receiving as many posts as possible to understand how to serve you better next year or if at all.

Any constructive criticism is gladly accepted. The judges were not aware of anybodies identity when we chose the winners. The judges were made up of one representative from Roland one from Avery, one from Sign Africa and one independent Art Critic.

Each Judge had to loose some of their favorites in the process of judging as it was democratic vote (one vote per judge) this is inevitable.

One of the things that struck us this year was the quality of the entries and hence the introduction of a wild card vote as we all thought that some of our favorites
were eliminated in the voting process, the disadvantages of democracy.

We have tried to be fair by creating this blog so that people can express their opinions, but I would like people to desist from bashing each other. This only creates bad feelings and is not helpful in building constructive energy.

Constructive criticism allows you to stand on the shoulders of the person you assisted. Destructive criticism allows you to walk on their bones, this leaves you in one place and does not allow you to become taller and greater.

You all have a beautiful evening

Bob

Lucien

Candice,

All the entries are still online, my entries were 91, 96, 111, 114, also, the 24 finalists designs are on displayed if you look on the wrap to the max introduction page.

There are some nice designs in the finalist’s category and to be honest, when it comes to art and design it’s all really up for interpretation. In no way am I saying that my work was better than anyone else’s.

I do not wish to belittle anybodies work or say that this or that design should not have made it. My issue is that some or all of the finalists were not chosen because of their design work but rather because of WHO they are. Again this is just speculation on my part based on the early knowledge of who the finalists would be and the coincidence with the timing of my photo.

My impression from the emails I’ve received so far is that some or all of the finalists were previous competitors and one lady even confirmed knowing someone that won last year. There seems to be some relationship here.

The speculation on my part is that the contestants were profiled, photo’s used for recognition purposes, it was really a matter of WHO should be a finalist.

I would like to point out that these are purely my views on this matter and that none of the other contestants are in cahoots with me. Roland is welcome to exercise their right to take any action they feel necessary against me.

Candice Bradfield

Hi Lucien

Out of interest, which category did you enter? It's a pity they have changed the website as I would have liked to look at all the entries. Like you said, some of them were cut and paste jobs, and I would even go as far as to say that most of the entries (in the grand format prize section) did not constitute good design. The scale of this particular project makes it really amazing, there is so much you can do with the whole side of a building - yet most of the entries looked like your
standard level poster. Please excuse my ranting, but I was very excited to take part in the competition.

I feel sorry for those people who were still waiting to hear the results. When Tracy (I think it was, but stand corrected) called me to ask if I was attending the Awards Party, I said that I wasn't sure and asked if the finalists were going to be notified. When she told me politely that the finalists had already been told I did feel like a bit of a tool. I don't think it was made explicitly clear that the finalists had been told in the email sent on 19/08/08. Is there anything to stop them from announcing the winners before the party? Obviously they know, and would have told their friends so it's no state secret. I will be interested to see how they respond further to the situation.

Lezanne Bekker

I'm just going to reply what I have replied to Lucien. I have no idea what the problem really is, so I'm not going to say anything regards to Lucien's comments, since I'm not too sure what to do.
Personally I think, and what I've told him is that I think the judges had enough time to decide. It's Roland's competition. It's Roland's rules. The competition ended early August which I believe gave the judges far enough time to decide what they're looking for. It's not for us to decide who should be finalists or not. I think the judges judged according to specific specifications that they were looking for. And personally I'm more than thrilled to have known that I'm a finalist even before the week of the 25th of August.

How and what Roland decides I think is purely their own since it's their competition. Maybe I'm wrong in this aspect but as for me, I really dont have or see any problems whatsoever.

Hope I do not offend anyone in this matter or through my comment Whatever happens from here on depends on Roland. As I said, it's their competition.

Kind Regards

Lezanne

Wes

I have read through all of the posts regarding this email, and in my opinion there are aspects that I agree and disagree with in Lucien's emails. The only aspect that I agree with, is that the extension of the closing date from the 11th to the 12th should not have been allowed. I do understand that there must have been a lot of people submitting their entries on the 11th, but the people who could not submit in time should have planned this deadline in advance.

With regards to the announcing of the finalists, I personally think that a week is ample time to make a final decision on less than 400 designs. It's the initial 10 to 30 seconds of viewing that should make the impression, as this is generally the time period the target audience will view a billboard or wrapped car while driving past. Your design needs to make the impact in this time period otherwise it is unsuccessful in my opinion.

With regards to Lucien having an issue with submitting a photograph, I think it's absurd. I'm not sure if he is aware of the process of the previous Wrap to the Max competition, where we were requested to submit a photograph as well and the reason behind that is it is nice to put a face to the design when all the designs are put up at Sign Africa. I personally think it's a nice touch.

I have been informed that this year the voting will be done differently from last year which I think is great. I think it's really good to get the public involved in the final voting as after all they are the people who will be viewing the adverts out there in the market. I was also informed that the competitors are allowed to be at the Roland stand at Sign Africa encouraging the public to vote for their designs. Unfortunately I strongly disagree with this. I'm not sure if the other contestants feel the same way, but this is meant to be a competition based on how good your design is and how successfully it communicates to the public, not how skilled you are at selling your design to the public. I personally feel that by allowing contestants to be present, a swaying in the public's decisions may occur. I also do not feel it is fair, as some contestants might not be able to be there as a result of travelling distances or work commitments and so forth. I welcome your opinion, but I do think the creativity should be left within the design itself and not with regards to ones selling abilities.

Please advise me on your thought regarding this matter.

Kind Regards,
Wes

Lucien

Leigh Bradfield

Thank you so much for the support. Please pass this exact email on to the wrap to the max email address as they want to know people's opinions on this. I have no proof that any finalist is a business acquaintance of Roland but judging by the slander I've received from some of the finalists its seems many of them are previous entrants. Was this a prerequisite?

And dont worry, you are not alone, many were shocked to hear that the finalists were chosen last week, some were sitting in anticipation of a phone call right until yesterday. Is'nt this wrong and cruel and degrading?

Candice Bradfield

Hi Lucien

Out of interest, which category did you enter? It's a pity they have changed the website as I would have liked to look at all the entries. Like you said, some of them were cut and paste jobs, and I would even go as far as to say that most of the entries (in the grand format prize section) did not constitute good design. The scale of this particular project makes it really amazing, there is so much you can do with the whole side of a building - yet most of the entries looked like your standard level poster. Please excuse my ranting, but I was very excited to take part in the competition.

I feel sorry for those people who were still waiting to hear the results. When Tracy (I think it was, but stand corrected) called me to ask if I was attending the Awards Party, I said that I wasn't sure and asked if the finalists were going to be notified. When she told me politely that the finalists had already been told I did feel like a bit of a tool. I don't think it was made explicitly clear that the finalists had been told in the email sent on 19/08/08. Is there anything to stop them from announcing the winners before the party? Obviously they know, and would have told their friends so it's no state secret. I will be interested to see how they respond further to the situation.

Regards
Candice

Johan Pretorius

This is crazy!!!!! bad looser looser looser oops did I repeat that!!!

Don't waste your time on this guy. His designs are horrible!!

Regards
J

Pamela Woest

I am, speachless. When I decided to enter this competition, I was really excited, I still am, and I'm looking forward to the Awards Evening, as this was my first Graphic Design Competition. I am going to enter more in the future.

When I entered, I thought to myself, it'll be great to have my own digital printer, even a Laptop for that matter. As I only have a Desktop PC out of the stone age, but it works. I did't get a monthly Laptop, I am not a Finalist, but, that's Ok. Yeah it would've been nice to win something, But, what matters the most, I enjoyed myself doing those designs, taking it from the design theme to the end design. Man, that was fun, and so rewarding. I sat up till late at night, just thinking what to do. That's the main point, having fun. And, donating the money to charity.

And about the foto, I like to put a face to a design. It's the same as putting a face to a voice you've heard over the phone. I am going to the Sign Africa with camera in hand, I am just excited to actually see my designs printed. It's the same as putting a face to a voice you've heard over the phone.

Well, just a pity, someone whould make a "lekker" competition into something so ugly.

Looking forward to the Show and rewards party.

Last Thought, I am proud to have taken part in the competition, and still like showing my designs to people.

Best Ragards

Pamela Woest

Lucien

Mattheus

From your remarks you strike me as being disrespectful of the next person's opinion so this is the last you wll hear from me. I think you are not even aware of the disrepect that was showered upon you. As for my design's your opinion means little to me. I have great pride in what I do and that is why we are here now. I'm sorry you feel so little for your work. Roland is welcome to take me to court. You are the first one though to not hold up an Aids Orphan as some talisman against me.
Good day to you.

Ryan Roberts

Hey Guys, though i don't agree with Lucien's comments and actions, I think it's pretty cool that some entrants are posting their opinions. It shows that the competition is making a difference and doing right! If there was no value/interest in this competition, nobody would bother to comment!

A Wrap to the Max Blog for 2009 would be great, it will encourage debate and greater overall interest in the competition!

Zunica Joao

Hi,

I do agree with Lucien about the extension of the dates, after the deadline due to the large number of entries. I don't think that was fair on anyone who gave it in on time. Deadlines are there for a reason. But as for everything else, if he found it so immoral to donate money to charity, then he shouldn't have entered in the first place. Roland gave him the choice to enter and those were the terms.

He stated "I would also like the general public to know how strongly you felt about our “large donation” that we made to your competition as I’m sure you are a tax payer and you too might think your “large donation” to the government gives you the right to criticize how this country is run." Why did he pay it in the first place...he made the choice and he is accountable for that, I mean I think it's just wrong that he would even make an issue out of that.

He sounds like a sore loser to me. Its okay to mention issues, but the whole way he is going about it, is in bad taste.
Kind regards
Zunica

Ryan Roberts

I would like to make it clear that my opinion and comments are based on my understandings and beliefs.

In no way am i associated with Mr Khan motives of this matter. Everyone by law has the freedom to voice their opinion but one must not accuse if lack of evidence is not present. I hope the majority will rule in the case of wrongful judgement of runners up.

Thank you

Jay

WTF are these guys on about...?!! If ever I saw a sore looser this guy would be it...

I have been entering for 3yrs now and haven't won anything as of yet but that ain't gonna stop me from entering again next year.

This whole competition is aimed at charity and if they are to stingy to give a 200 odd rand for people less fortunate than themselves, then maybe they should go somewhere else.

This competition to me is merely an opportunity to express myself as an artist and to help others. If it so happens that I win something for my effort that would be great but if not, I still win and feel good that I as an individual has made a difference in someones life.

They should come right and wake up..!!! This is life and not everybody can
be winners at the same time... Wait your turn and if your good enough then
they will be the next winners.

I personally want to thank you guys for doing such an amazing job and many thanks to Roland for donating these machines. I look forward to the year my design meets the criteria of the judges and the competition so that I to can walk away with one of your great products.

Thank you all for making this possible each year and you can count on my support every year.

Kindest Regards

Jay

Jeremy Dannheisser

Here's my take on it.
1. He has every right to speak his mind
2. He is being foolish by making threats
3. He has a serious case of sour grapes
4. I can't find 114 but the other 3 are ordinary to say the least (I can
say this as my entry was pretty ordinary as well)
5. You enter a competition knowing that when there is a creative
decision to be made it will be a subjective thing and very seldom will
everyone agree on the winner
6. I protest cause I'm not a finalist (only joking)
7. I for one look forward to this competition every year. It must be one
of the highest "return for your investment" competitions in the country
and very probably in the world (roland america didn't give such a prize
in their wrap to the max). The spirit in which it is done is truly
commendable. I only hope that Bob and his team do not see this person's
"mindspeak" as the feeling out there.
8. Sometimes you need to go and speak your mind in a cupboard by
yourself before you speak it out in public. It could save you loads of
embarrassment.

Just my 2c worth

Regards

Mariana De jager

Hi there,

who votes by SMS?
If I pay all my friends the R2.00 per SMS I can easily win the notebook and it'll still cost me a fraction of the price - so u can actually buy the notebook monthly prize.

I also agree that there were much better designs than the ones that were chosen as finalists. Who are the judges? Do they have any idea about advertising? To me it looked like u picked the most busy designs instead of looking for real good design. Just my opinion. And I know taste difffers, but a good design is good - no matter what! Shouldn't the judges be objective?

m

Guy Adam Ailion

Hi

I am a Masters Architectural student at the University of the Witwatersrand making me a member of the immediate public.
I am one of the finalists, entree 153.

Guy Adam Ailion